CBR Interview: Dan Shelton, Shelton Brothers Importing.
- Artist: Craft Beer Radio
- Title: CBR Interview: Dan Shelton, Shelton Brothers Importing.
- Album: Craft Beer Radio
- Year: 2007
- Length: 65:17 minutes (22.42 MB)
- Format: MP3 Mono 44kHz 48Kbps (CBR)
This week we interview Dan Shelton from Shelton Brothers. They import some great beers such as Cantillon and Fantome as well as the notorious Santa's Butt, and Seriously Bad Elf. It's a long talk that covers lots to topics, from label approval, to importing and marketing expensive beer, and there is even a Rant about extreme beers and the BA top 100.
Craft Beer Radio is an Internet talk show about craft and micro brewed beers. The mission of the show is to spread the word of good beer. We introduce people to craft beer, and teach them about different beer styles, brewers who make them, and beer history. Whether you are new to craft beer or have been drinking it for more than 20 years we have something for you.
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Comments
This seemed like an easy
This seemed like an easy interview for you Jeff - you just say one word and he'll ramble on for five minutes. Good job :)
It's a lucky thing that was a phone interview, I doubt there would be room for you, him AND his ego in your studio. He was right on about some of his comments, but he was so aggressive about his point of view he often came across as a jerk. I think if he toned it down a bit he could get more converts to his cause. I mean, I agreed with him on a bunch of stuff but his attitude made me want to disagree on principal.
Maybe he needs to meet some other beer geeks too - his sweeping generalizations about beer geeks, what they like, and what they know was way off, at least from my perspective. I've been talking about good low alcohol beers for years, we need more of them. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of World Wide Stout, but that's not an everyday beer.
The other thing that irked me was his attitude that only he knows what good beer is, and good beer is only what he likes. I like a huge variety of beers, and I like different beers at different times, places, weather, etc. To think that there is never a place for a beer that is hoppy and sweet shows a lack of imagination. Besides that, even if I don't like a beer that doesn't necessarily mean the beer is bad. I've never had an American Hefeweizen that I liked. Based on sales though, a lot of people enjoy it. They are welcome to it, and it doesn't make them bad, stupid, or uneducated.
His rant about the beeradvocate rating system and the right way to taste and judge beers was off too. Jeff, I thought you did a good job of pointing out that if everyone puts a beer in their top 10, that beer will tend to float to the top of the rankings. Yes, he's correct about the proper way to taste and judge for competitions and such, but in that case you are attempting to judge the beer fairly in a pseudo-scientific way. The beeradvocate ratings are more of a popularity contest - so what? That doesn't mean it's useless, it's just different. Does he honestly expect people to get their pint at the bar and then request a quiet, well-lit, fragrance-free room where they can do a proper evaluation? And if he wants to set up his own website with beer ratings he is welcome to do so, but it is not a site I would use because his view of what is a good beer is far too narrow for my palate.
In fact, he apparently dislikes anything that is different - European malts and hops are "better", but of course he couldn't name any. And it's interesting to note that the High and Mighty XPA features American hop varieties - if they really feel that way, why would they use sub-standard ingeredients?
All of that being said - I enjoyed the interview. Even if I didn't like the way he came across, I agreed with several of his points and appreciate many of the beers his company brings into the US. I'm looking forward to trying some of the High and Mighty beers if they ever make it out my way.
Sorry about the rant.
Kick Ass Rant
Tom, that was spectacular! I wonder if that qualifies you for another pint glass...
I didn't find him that irritating, he was clearly doing his job and was in high gear through the whole interview. I hear a lot of reps with the same complaints and general attitude. I feel for them, they're fighting day in and day out with laws, perceptions, prices, taxes and doing what they can to get into new markets. His 'ego', as you state, is necessary for him to do what he does with any measure of success.
I do wish folks in this industry would have a deeper and wider understanding of beer, not just the knowledge of the beers they're selling. He was clearly out of his realm with a few questions, should have just stopped while he was ahead a few times.
I do agree with this - whenever he said "Beer Geek" I cringed. The BA rant was lame too, but again, I found that to be just him selling his products - the ones that probably don't find their way to the top 100 list.
Great interview Jeff - I am really enjoying these. I hope this doesn't replace a CBR with Jeff and Greg this week though.
UPDATE
Yeah, forgot to mention his complete ignorance on ingredients, and his assumption that European are just better... because they're from Europe?
yes, but . . .
I agree Rick, he was just doing his job as he sees it, but as far as I'm concerned his view of his job is 20/400. It is fine for him to have opinions, but he crosses the line when he implies that we are a bunch of rubes who don't know what good beer is and that our tastes are invalid. If he just presented his beers as "these are really good, you should try them" then we have no problem. But when he trashes other beers (and why the beef with Merchant du Vin? was I not listening closely enough?) it diminishes his position.
Yeah, but...
How many Toyota dealers have good things to say about Chevy or really know anything about cars beyond what they're trained to know? Most 'buyers' in the industry just eat this kind of stuff up, he comes off sounding authoritative and confident.
I'm not saying I agree or like anything about the way the industry works, but I'm playing his side of things and being devil's advocate a bit. It's his livelihood and in general we all appreciate what he does in order to put the products we like in stores. When talking to Jeff, he was on the clock - he has to be as a business owner. When data comes back that isn't favorable to what he's selling, he has to dismiss it, he has to let the buyers understand why his products deserve to be in the top 100. He's competing with agencies with millions in advertising. Again, I don't necessarily like the attitude, not sure it'd be fun drinking with him, but I do enjoy the products he brings to the stores and wouldn't hold anything he said in the interview too seriously - but with grain of salt or teaspoon of sugar.
Somehow, after typing that, I seem to have stopped caring. Tom, you're right.
Ha! You shouldn't cave so
Ha! You shouldn't cave so easily :)
I get your point too. It's just that, for me, I hate that attitude and I dislike people who have to put down others products (or put down others) in order to feel better about their own products (or themselves). I know he is trying to sell his wares, but to me it is far better for him to say "well those are fine products, but this one is better, give it a try" than to say that their products suck.
Speaking of car salesman, we are looking for a new vehicle and I went to a dealer to see what they had. I told the guy what I was looking for, test drove some stuff, said I was still looking around - he suggested other vehicles from other manufacturers that I could go look at for comparison. That tells me that he is confident that his product can stand on its own and doesn't need him saying "their car sucks, buy ours instead". It makes a much stronger case for his vehicle.
Perhaps it is an issue of his audience - we are not buyers, we are well informed and experienced consumers. When the man tells you that a beer sucks, and you have tried that beer and like it, it makes you question if he knows what he is talking about.
Aging
So what did everyone make of what Shelton said about how aging beers is a crap idea in general and that its only purpose is to distinguish differences in the way a particular beer is brewed year-to-year?
nonsense
I didn't get that at all... I took it as someone who a) didn't know how to age beer or b) someone who has had a bad experience with an aged beer.
ugh
Yeah, that was annoying too. I'd say he is 100% correct within his experience, but since his experience is apparently limited to low alcohol beers that doesn't say much. There is nothing wrong with aging beers, as long as it is the right beer. Some beers will peak then decline, others will peak and stay there for a long time, others will only decline. But you all know this, and we know that oxidation is not necessarily a bad thing in beer. Ok fine, he doesn't like it - that doesn't mean the rest of us are wrong for enjoying the complexities that a beer can take on as it ages.
Propaganda
That wasn’t an interview; that was propaganda.
That guy is still a lawyer, and he has no idea how to be a sales person. In court, you are dissecting matters and finding faults in the opposition’s case. That works for law.
As someone who did sales for a very long time, I know that you win people over by telling them how good, special, and life-improving your products are. If you spend half of your time putting the competition down, you make yourself out to be narrow-minded, unknowledgeable, and arrogant.
Well, he accomplished that.
Well...a little of this...
a little of that, this guy does come across poorly in his whine but don't whine approach, but I simaltaneously agree with two key points, the top 100 beers on BA are hardly a bible, unless the world revolves around 7.5% abv and beyond.
Also cellaring of beers is a bit dreamy, beer simply does not age well no matter how careful the individual cellaring. Some beers will add character that might be interesting but is ultimately not intended.
Comical though his complaints about marketing in Belgium, and his Butt.
This guy sucked
Oh my Beer
this guy was so self serving
worst interview ever not the fault of Jeff
although he should of hammered him a little(at least)
I do agree that Jeff and Greg should Blind taste test(eliminate all variables)
Ye shall know the Bastard, And the Bastard shall set you free
Wow
Listened to this after a quick perusal of the comments but--contrarian that I am--I listened with an open, optimistic mind. Mr. Shelton beat the hell out of that pretty darn quickly. Rambly, derogatory, defensive, etc.
Most of my issues were covered well and at length by the others but ... meh. His inconsistency alarmed me. A lot. He bemoans sellout breweries who "stick their finger in the wind" and makes hay about he and his brothers importing "beer that [they] love" and then shifts to the "I hate some of these beers but ..." Bogus and confusing.
Jeff, I congratulate you for keeping a congenial tone throughout. Admirable.
Sigh...
The one good point Dan Shelton made was about the high caloric value of massive beers. As for everything else, he fell somewhere between egotistical promoter and colossal asshole. Where were the hard hitting follow-up questions Jeffery? Shelton insulted beer geeks like yourself (They also happen to be at least some of Shelton's customers). I didn't know we had such awful palates and taste in styles. Didn't you and Greg spend about 70 episodes responding to criticism and doomsday scenarios posed by some of the listeners who think large breweries are the enemy of good beer? Your position, which I respect, is that you would buy good beer from breweries that make good beer, no matter how gigantic or macro. You've tasted Blue Moon, Redhook, and the A-B winter releases on your show. Where was that when Shelton was denounced every brewery that wasn't run out of a backyard? Shelton ripped a list that states "as reviewed/rated by BeerAdvocate members" (Do you see how that's different from "The Best 100 Beers in the World- scientifically selected by immortals with super-human palates and set in stone?"). Shockingly, his brother's Beer of the Gods has a 3.11/5. I'm sure that has nothing to do with his hatred of BA. That was, well, an interesting interview.
I'm eagerly awaiting your next show, which better be about sessionable lagers from Bamberg with extremely limited production. If it isn't, you guys don't have what it takes to be serious about beer, you ignorant American beer geeks. ; )
You make a good point. I've
You make a good point. I've been hesitant to comment on the Shelton interview because Jeff and I are kind of astonished that it affected people so negatively. He's a forceful presence and trying to sell his own beer, that's for sure, but a lot of what he said had at least a glimmer of truth to it. Particularly him going after our hearts by agreeing with us about the BA Top 100 list.
I recognize that part of the problem was his tone. He didn't strike a conciliatory tone of "that's what I think, but other people might think differently" - he was pretty forceful and gave the impression that there's only one right opinion - his - and everyone else's has no merit. I'd be surprised if that's what he truly believes, but I can understand how one might think that's how he comes across.
But Andy, your point about us not defending "Good beer is good beer, no matter where it is from" is a good one and it's something we should stick up for. We'll endeavor to do more of that in the future.
Have to agree
Listened to the podcast after reading some of the posts and I have to say the ensuing "brew-ha-ha" seems out of place. Dan Shelton is right on when he calls out the current culture of IBU and ABV extremists. It is too easy to rank beers simply by comparing their hoppiness or alcohol content.